Comments on: Should It Just Work? https://www.barneyb.com/barneyblog/2010/04/25/should-it-just-work/ Thoughts, rants, and even some code from the mind of Barney Boisvert. Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:58:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: denstar https://www.barneyb.com/barneyblog/2010/04/25/should-it-just-work/comment-page-1/#comment-211267 denstar Thu, 29 Apr 2010 19:32:36 +0000 http://www.barneyb.com/barneyblog/?p=1489#comment-211267 I'm not sure that business logic concerns and persistence concerns are separate deals. It's one of the decisions we face as developers: How much business logic should be in the actual CFML code and how much should be in the DB. And there's stuff like caching to think about, etc.. Maintaining consistency/state can be complex. Things can get muddy pretty quick. And factor in that transaction handling is getting "smarter" all the time. Back in the day, you had to do a lot more "manual" locking-ish-ness, neh? I'm amazed at how much Hibernate can do for you, right out of the box. Stuff that you used to have to do by hand... Eh. Maybe persistence concerns *are* business logic concerns? Something like that... Computers freaking rock. :) I'm not sure that business logic concerns and persistence concerns are separate deals.

It's one of the decisions we face as developers: How much business logic should be in the actual CFML code and how much should be in the DB.

And there's stuff like caching to think about, etc.. Maintaining consistency/state can be complex. Things can get muddy pretty quick.

And factor in that transaction handling is getting "smarter" all the time. Back in the day, you had to do a lot more "manual" locking-ish-ness, neh?

I'm amazed at how much Hibernate can do for you, right out of the box. Stuff that you used to have to do by hand… Eh.

Maybe persistence concerns *are* business logic concerns? Something like that…

Computers freaking rock. :)

]]> By: barneyb https://www.barneyb.com/barneyblog/2010/04/25/should-it-just-work/comment-page-1/#comment-211264 barneyb Thu, 29 Apr 2010 18:04:13 +0000 http://www.barneyb.com/barneyblog/?p=1489#comment-211264 I guess my opinion is that transactions are a business logic concern, not a persistence concern. The concept of non-ACID writes to the persistent store is flaw in the business layer, regardless of how the interactions are actually implemented. Don't get me wrong, I very much love building an object model and then just letting Hibernate deal with the DDL and persistence operations. The speedup for development is HUGE. But that's an orthagonal concern to data consistency in my view. Fortunately, AOP can push transactions out of sight and out of mind, so getting the best of both worlds is really quite reasonable. I guess my opinion is that transactions are a business logic concern, not a persistence concern. The concept of non-ACID writes to the persistent store is flaw in the business layer, regardless of how the interactions are actually implemented.

Don't get me wrong, I very much love building an object model and then just letting Hibernate deal with the DDL and persistence operations. The speedup for development is HUGE. But that's an orthagonal concern to data consistency in my view. Fortunately, AOP can push transactions out of sight and out of mind, so getting the best of both worlds is really quite reasonable.

]]> By: denstar https://www.barneyb.com/barneyblog/2010/04/25/should-it-just-work/comment-page-1/#comment-211262 denstar Thu, 29 Apr 2010 17:58:15 +0000 http://www.barneyb.com/barneyblog/?p=1489#comment-211262 I think the idea behind Hibernate is "it should just work". A lot of effort has been put into making it quite intelligent. It's perhaps the most sophisticated ORM around, neh? Plus, you can tweak the heck out of it (as I know you know). It doesn't /have/ to be simple, but it /can/ be, which is swell. Super swell, really. It's not about *wanting* to /not/ have control, it's about practicality, IMHO. You're not *forced* to control everything if you don't want to. Quite a bit of the time, I just want the data to "get in there", and don't need to get fancy with various types of transactions and special listeners and whatnot. Set it and forget it. But it all depends, I reckon. Neh? I think the idea behind Hibernate is "it should just work".

A lot of effort has been put into making it quite intelligent. It's perhaps the most sophisticated ORM around, neh?

Plus, you can tweak the heck out of it (as I know you know). It doesn't /have/ to be simple, but it /can/ be, which is swell. Super swell, really.

It's not about *wanting* to /not/ have control, it's about practicality, IMHO. You're not *forced* to control everything if you don't want to.

Quite a bit of the time, I just want the data to "get in there", and don't need to get fancy with various types of transactions and special listeners and whatnot. Set it and forget it.

But it all depends, I reckon.

Neh?

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