Hi Jack,

Thanks for your feedback on our TIOBE index. Good suggestion! The Wikipedia entry for ColdFusion has been adapted recently. This is sufficient to add ColdFusion again to the CFML entry in our index definition. This will give CFML/ColdFusion definitely a boost. I will thank you for this suggestion in our next publication. I hope that this answers your question.

Regards,
Paul

What's troubling me the more I look at it recently is a concerted, ongoing effort to seperate "CFML" from "ColdFusion".

There would be no other "server products" running "CFML" without ColdFusion, Adobe, Macromedia, or Allaire.

Why is there a change being introduced now? oh, there's some wonderful CFML interpreters that are OSS. That's wonderful. But let's not forget: They interpret ColdFusion Markup Language into Java bytecode, just like "ColdFusion" the original.

What this leaves, is conflicts of egos, personalities, insecurities. It doesn't matter what the side, or who said what to provoke what. If you're better than it, you will act better than it. There's a big difference between what is being said/done/reported on both the "CFML" (aka OSS engines) and Adobe respectively.

As a ColdFusion developer (I refuse to see any difference between the two today, because in the beginning ColdFusion is all there is as a unique syntax), I see this divisiveness as immature and frankly leaves me wondering if CF devs are really this bored with having conquered web apps that other languages are bothering catching up to.

Instead of spreading the neat and great things we can build with this wonderful language and ecosystem that has made all of us profitable, we're playing target practice with each other?

It's shameful. It's wonderful we have options in the CFML interpreter space. It's unacceptable that anyone, decides to speak from a "side". We're all one language. This tribe within a tribe is disgusting and the cause of all poison that spreads through human relationships.

I hated/loathed/bored of programming until I found ColdFusion made by the Allaire brothers. Let's all try to remember the day we found ColdFusion (or it found us) and we had our first aha moment.

The feelings, the inspiration we all have felt should be lending it self to creating conversations full of respect, not letting ankward anti-social geekish tendencies to be curt with our words and then get into a downward spiral of being hurtful. Anyone who does this does not deserve to hurt an entire community, nor have the right to take on the decision of how to poison that community.

How about we just try to be the ColdFusion community. It's not that hard. If you need something to make you feel significant, let it be what you build, and not what you build it with that makes you feel special.

The use of ColdFusion/CFML/CFScript/Railo/OpenBD is being misrepresented.

Are these C++ articles excluded: DirectX, OpenGL, XNA. Probably not.
Are these PHP articles excluded: CakePHP, Zend, Joomla. Probably not.

The index is already too unscientific, and excluding valid ColdFusion topics only makes it moreso.

Try http://www.langpop.com or something else instead, and erase the word Tiobe from your memory. I'm going to ;)

Other teams in my company work with EJB, Hibernate, Spring, Wicket, PLSQL and who knows what else and they all say they are Java developers.

When they ask me what I do, I say I'm Coldfusion developer, because If I said that I'm CFML developer they would give me even stranger look :)

So after so many posts I'll summarize (if someone doesn't agree with me we can discuss somewhere else ;) ):
1. Codlfusion is a platform and shouldn't be on the TIOBE list!
2. CFML is not and will not be THE language for at least couple of years (sorry CFML committee ). Why? Because you don't get job as MXML developer and you don't get job as CFML developer.

I know that Sean Corfield and other my heroes are really fighting for a good cause.
But I doubt I'll ever call myself CFML developer :)

By that argument, JavaMail (a JEE interface) should be Java. CFSHAREPOINT, just like JavaMail, is pure functionality exposed through an API to programming language X (CFML for the former, any JVM language for the latter). They're not programming constructs; there's no syntax. I'll gladly agree that CFSHAREPOINT is part of "ColdFusion the framework", but it's not part of the language (whatever it's name is).

Arguing that CFSHAREPOINT is part of "ColdFusion the language" is EXACTLY what TIOBE says. You're effectively saying that TIOBE is correct in pushing ColdFusion off the list. Which is a valid opinion, and the correct one in my view. As soon as you say that all these functional APIs are what the language is, you're really just stating that the language isn't a language, it's a framework, because any sort of programming constructs (i.e. the language) are completely eclipsed by framework's functionality, thereby rendering the "language" just a framework.

So we agree. :)

@barneyb: I respectfully disagree. CFSHAREPOINT is absolutely CFML. It's not supported on all CFML engines; it's non-standard CFML, but it is CFML. It would be like saying the MARQUEE tag is not HTML. It's non-standard HTML, but it is HTML.

Until you can force people to say CFML, I cannot agree with you, at least at this present time. Considering that there are a lot of people that don't even know that there are other CFML engines besides Adobe ColdFusion, I don't see that happening any time soon. People will continue to call CFML ColdFusion. Right or wrong, it's a fact.

Until you can force people to say CFML, I cannot agree with you, at least at this present time. Considering that there are a lot of people that don't even know that there are other CFML engines besides Adobe ColdFusion, I don't see that happening any time soon. People will continue to call CFML ColdFusion. Right or wrong, it's a fact.

I don't know. I think it's still relevant, because they don't include JEE within Java, nor Rails within Ruby. So mashing ColdFusion into CFML isn't really equivalent. Because it's not that people refer to CFML as ColdFusion that is the problem. It's the fact that they refer to non-CFML as ColdFusion. Is CFSHAREPOINT part of CFML? No. But it is part of ColdFusion. Should a post on it count towards the CFML score? I'd say no, because it has nothing to do with the language, just the platform.

That's the stuff that'll pollute the "algorithm". [please read whole-arm air quotes into the quotes there.] But it's Friday night, and I need a drink or twelve. I'm glad I didn't have to listen to as much TIOBE stuff this quarter, but the replacement was far worse (and nearly as stupid).

"Bordering on retardedly stupid."

You won't get any argument from me there.